MARTIALFORCE.COM

PRESENTS

AN INTERVIEW WITH

MASTER SCOTT ASHLEY

SEPT / 2016

I am always in search of people to interview that have a story of triumph through sheer determination. The individual you will read about has climbed the latter of personal achievement and continues to be an example to his children and his students. His tenacity for life and training became evident to me in our initial meeting. His Martial Arts training comes from practical application in the school of hard knock which were the streets of New York City. He not only became a champion in the ring but also in life. The person I am referring to is Scott Ashley. We here at Martialforce.com hope you enjoy reading about his story and personal journey

Interviewed by Eddie Morales

Martialforce.com: How did you get your start in martial arts and what was the scene like when you began?

My interest in martial arts began as a ten year old, after seeing the movie, “Enter the Dragon,” starring Bruce Lee. I actually started training by making nunchaku out of a broom stick, and practiced the moves that I had seen in the movie.

In 1973, there weren’t many karate schools around, and my father would not allow me to join a karate school. I learned some basic techniques from an older kid in the neighborhood who had some training. My parents divorced around the same time that I started learning from him, and I moved four times over the next five years. I kept practicing the techniques that had I learned, and continued practicing with the nunchaku that I made. I also did some wrestling in school, and was pretty good, but my father would not allow me to join the wrestling team. 

It wasn’t until I was fifteen years old and living with my sister in Manhattan that I was able to join a karate school. I had dropped out of school and started working as a busboy in a restaurant on the Upper East Side. I got hired the week before my sixteenth birthday, and decided that my birthday present to myself would be to join a karate school.  I called three schools, and joined the one that was five dollars a month cheaper than the other two. My first class was on my sixteenth birthday, and I immediately knew that I would never stop practicing karate.

Martialforce.com: What was it like to grow up in New York?

SCOTT ASHLEY: I grew up in East Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York, and as a young boy I realized that being able to fight would elevate my status among the group of kids I ran with in the neighborhood. I spent my weekends shining shoes on a street corner, and later in a route of bars. I learned valuable lessons about humanity from the time I spent with street hustlers on that corner, and the weekend regulars at the bars.

After my mom left, I lived in four different towns on Long Island, New York. There was nothing about Long Island that I could compare to Brooklyn, everything was different. I never seemed to fit in with the kids who grew up on Long Island, and looked forward to the weekends where I would spend time with my shoe shining acquaintances back in Brooklyn.

Martialforce.com: How did you get involved with sport karate, and did you win your first tournament?

SCOTT ASHLEY: The dojo where I started training did not regularly participate in tournaments. The first karate Tournament that I participated in was the Empire State Karate Championships, held in Long Island. At the direction of my sensei, I competed in the adult white belt forms division. There must have been at least thirty competitors in the division, and I did not place. In the four years that I spent as a member of that dojo, we only participated in four or five tournaments. I did place in all of the other tournaments as a green, brown, and black belt.

Martialforce.com: Was it a natural progression for you to enter the kick boxing or full contact karate ring?

SCOTT ASHLEY: Prior to the start of my kick boxing career, I had competed in a karate tournament and placed third in the black belt fighting division. Although I took home a trophy, I was unsatisfied with the results, and I knew that the point karate circuit was not for me. I started to learn some boxing skills from a friend that I was teaching karate, and I enjoyed the exchange of contact. This was in the early eighties, when the karate magazines regularly did cover stories on the full contact fighters, and ESPN was broadcasting PKA fights. I read those articles, and watched those fights. I wanted to get involved in the sport, but it wasn’t easy to find a competent kick boxing trainer back then. Thankfully, I hooked up with Fred Corritone, who was one of the most active trainers in the sport. Within a few months, I was fighting on a United States Kick Boxing team competing in Canada. In front of an audience of more than 4,500, I defeated a Canadian fighter who had four wins and two loses, and I received a nice write up in the local newspaper the following morning. I thoroughly enjoyed the experience, and was certain that I would someday be a world champion.

You and I have a mutual friend who was the PKA US Welterweight Champion, Tony Arneaud. What was your initial meeting with him like, and did you train with him at any point?

After finally getting an introduction to a real kickboxing trainer in 1984, Fred Corritone, we went to a boxing gymnasium in Red Hook Brooklyn for my first night of training. I asked Freddy if I could spar, and he asked me if I knew how to kick. I responded, “Do you want to see me kick the bag?” He said, “I didn’t ask you if you could kick the bag, I asked you if you knew how to kick.”

Well, I put my pads on my feet and Freddy gloved me up. I got into the ring and Freddy started gloving up another fighter to spar with me. We sparred three rounds together. The other fighter was very skilled, and I enjoyed sparring with him. When we exited the ring, he told me that I was pretty good, and that he was surprised that I was able to land a kick to his head during our sparring.

After Freddy removed the boxing gloves from my hands, I went over to work on the heavy bag. While working on the bag, I was approached by another fighter that was in the gym. He started teaching me how to bend the legs to bob and weave under punches.

I felt very comfortable on that first night in the gym. On the ride home from the gym, I found out that the guy I sparred with was Michael Husbands, a top-ten ranked middleweight professional kickboxer. The fighter who taught me how to bob and weave was Tony Arneaud. He was the current US Champion in the same division that I would be competing in. Words can’t describe how I felt that night. I knew that I was in the place to accomplish what I set out to do, and I was surrounded by people who were genuinely interested in seeing me improve and succeed.

Many fighters would come to the gym a few months before a bout, complete the competition, and not return until they had another bout scheduled. Not me and Tony. From that day forward, Tony and I were the two fighters that were always in the gym, and we sparred hundreds of rounds together over the next five years. I can definitely credit Tony with teaching me how to, “fight in the trenches.” Tony is five feet, seven inches, and he liked to bore his way inside and work the body. I’m five feet eleven inches, but I enjoyed being shoulder-to-shoulder with him. Although I was considered a fairly tall welterweight, I was known for working the body on the inside. I credit Tony for my commitment to work the body, and the skill I developed in doing so.

I have always considered myself Tony Arneaud’s protégée. He worked my corner with Freddy for many of my fights, including when I won the US and world titles. I am forever indebted to him for helping me achieve my goal of becoming a world champion.

Tony Arneaud

Martialforce.com: Tell us about your teachers/trainers. Was the training brutal as many have experienced back then?

SCOTT ASHLEY: My first karate teacher was not a fighter, and the dojo was not a fighting dojo. Looking back at my training in the beginning, I realize that had to teach myself how to fight. I spent hours in the dojo, training on the heavy bag, hitting the makiwara, and conditioning my body. At sixteen, I was much younger than most of the members of the dojo.  Our dojo was mostly comprised of businessmen, who were coming to the dojo to get a workout in, and maybe feel as though they were learning self-defense. I constantly asked everyone in the dojo to spar with me, but most declined after getting their butt kicked by a cocky teenager. There were a few students that liked sparring, who would spar with me before, or after class, but I really had no coaching.

Unknown by my karate sensei, in 1980, I started teaching a group of my coworkers from the restaurant. These were athletic men in their mid-twenties, and I was seventeen. I rented a dance studio on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, and we had classes two or three times a week. In the first half of the class, I ran the students through all of the basic karate techniques that we did in the dojo. In the second half, we fought. Some other karateka that I knew from other dojos would occasionally participate in my classes. The fighting was always hard, and there were many students who couldn’t deal with the intensity. The class wasn’t so much about me teaching others, as it was about me having people to spar with.

Once I united with Fred Corritone, I learned how to properly prepare for the competitive arena. After my first sparring session, Fred told me that he wanted me to compete in boxing also. We trained in a boxing gym in Brooklyn, and I regularly boxed with boxers there. The sparring was always all-out, full-contact.

The only difference between sparring and fighting was, if you hurt your sparring partner, you stepped back and let them recover instead of trying to knock them out.

When Fred Corritone took a break from training fighters, I hooked up with Al Gavin and Bob Jackson, at Gramercy Gym. These two men were very experienced boxing trainers, and I competed in the New York Golden Gloves with them in my corner. We made it to the quarter-finals, and fought in the Felt Forum. Bob Jackson was also a prison guard, and organized a boxing match between our team and a team of prisoners at Greenhaven Penitentiary, Upstate New York. It was quite an experience going into a maximum security prison and fighting a prisoner. As nervous as I was to be inside a prison, I won my fight.

My last trainer was the Late, World Famous Angelo Dundee. I spent almost two years under his tutelage in South Florida, and was undefeated in five professional boxing fights. The sparring we did in his gym was top notch. When you get to spar on a daily basis with top ranked fighters, you have to get better. Angelo was a great man, and had a way of making you feel relaxed in the corner.

Martialforce.com: What are your thoughts on MMA? Do you believe that the development of Mixed Martial Arts Competition is good or bad as a whole?

SCOTT ASHLEY: I appreciate the athleticism and skill set that successful MMA fighters possess. It’s hard enough to be proficient at one discipline; MMA fighters have to work on jujitsu, judo, wrestling, boxing, and kick boxing skills. Working on all of these things in addition to strength and cardio training, takes a tremendous amount of time and commitment.

I personally do not enjoying watching MMA fights. I much prefer watching a good boxing fight. It’s not that I have anything against MMA; it’s just not a sport that I am interested in following.

I believe that the development of Mixed Martial Arts Competition is a good thing. It has been an excellent venue for those who have an interest in competing in that arena to get recognition, and compensation for their effort. The long term effects of the damage sustained by the body from the effects of MMA training and fighting is yet to be realized. As a fighter, I very well know what we are willing to sacrifice in order to reach the pinnacle of our sport. I have been, and for the rest of my life, will be living with the effects of head trauma that is generic to the fighting arena. I only hope that the safety of every fighter entering the ring is put before the financial gain inherent to the business of MMA.

Martialforce.com: What are your thoughts on kata? Do you believe it’s a waste of time or is there a benefit to its practice?

SCOTT ASHLEY: I am a martial artist. I practice Okinawa karate, and am making yearly trips to Okinawa to practice with my Sensei. The kata are priceless relics that I value. The practical applications of the techniques in the katas are only as good as the practitioner. Truly, there is no value in a jab, cross, hook, or uppercut, unless the person delivering them knows how to make them effective. Kata can be looked at the same way, but there is so much more. I teach my students that Kata is more about the mindset of the person performing the kata than it is the technique. Kata practice also involves an internal struggle to perfect something that can never be perfected. For me, kata is not a waste of time; it is the essence of my identity as a karateka.

Scott Ashley with Kazuo Tajima

Martialforce.com: You wrote book, ROAD TO THE TITLE MEMOIR OF A CHAMPION, can you tell our readers how this project got started and why it was important?

SCOTT ASHLEY: I published my first book in 2009, KICKBOXING A CHAMPIONS GUIDE TO TRAINING. At the end of the book, I discuss motivation, and I indicated that I would expand on the things that motivated me in another project.

I think it’s important to understand the type of drive it takes to reach the highest level of the fighting game. I can express from my own personal experience that a person who rises to the top of the fight game must have an intense drive to succeed. Although I can’t speak for others, I haven’t met anyone who has been successful in the fight business that hasn’t had some sort of compelling back-story. The reader of my memoir will understand my back-story, and what drove me to success in the fight game.

Another reason for documenting my journey from childhood to prominence is to give the reader who may have experienced some difficulties in life, the hope for a future of success in attaining their goals. My memoir makes it evident that things may not always go your way, even if you doing everything right, but perseverance will overcome what difficulties may arise.

Martialforce.com: Do you feel that passing on your knowledge to the new generation of practitioners is important?

SCOTT ASHLEY: It’s interesting to note that in the beginning of my journey as a teacher, I was only teaching in order to improve my skills. Having a class full of students, just gave me the opportunity to practice more, or get more sparring. Eventually, I became more interested in developing the students that entrusted me as their teacher. Back in the nineties, as a kick boxing trainer, I developed several young fighters who have had success in the sport.

For the past ten years I have been operating my dojo out of the City of Coral Springs Parks and Recreation Department. I run a children’s karate program, with students ages four through eighteen. I strive to make a positive impact on these kids, and hope to help them improve their self-esteem. I cherish every moment that I get to spend with these children, and am fortunate to have several students there who have earned their black belt, and are now helping me instruct the class.

When someone can identify their purpose in life, understand how they were designed by God, and the structure necessary to live out their purpose; they will be happy and live in peace. I understand that God has designed me as a martial artist, and my purpose is to pass on my knowledge to the new generation of practitioners.

Martialforce.com: What would you say are the Highlights or proud moments / achievements in your life to date?

SCOTT ASHLEY: After moving to Florida in 1989, I met someone that I accepted as my sensei. He was the most talented martial artist that I had ever seen, and he showed an interest in teaching me. Since he was one of the original American black belts in my system, our relationship was a perfect fit. This sensei introduced me to Zen, and we practiced Zen with the same vigor that we practiced karate. Some twenty years ago, on his fiftieth birthday, I gave him a King James Bible. Shortly after, he sent me a letter criticizing me for trying to share my religion with him, and how he wasn’t interested in such things. Well, flash forward a few years and my sensei retired from martial arts and moved into a Christian theological college in Korea. Four years later he was ordained a Christian Pastor, moved back to the USA, and opened a church. I’m proud that I was indirectly responsible for leading my sensei to Jesus, and helping to secure his salvation.

I have truly been blessed in my adult life. I was able to win a kick boxing world championship, I have been able to operate dojos from New York to Florida over the past thirty-five years, I am in my twentieth year of my law enforcement career, and have been a sergeant for the past four years. I wouldn’t say that I am proud about returning to school as an adult, and earning my Associates Degree, but I felt it was a big accomplishment.  I have a lovely supportive wife, and fantastic children. God is so good to me.

Martialforce.com: Having practiced for many years what would you say is your incentive or motivation to wake up every morning and practice martial arts?

SCOTT ASHLEY: I absolutely love training. I understand that practicing and teaching martial arts is my purpose for remaining on the earth. If the reader of this interview understands what it is to know that no matter how long you practice martial arts, there is always something to learn about the simplest movements. This is what makes it an art, and not a sport. It’s not like winning a game by having a higher score, hitting a home run with a perfect swing, scoring a goal, making a free throw, or even winning a fight with a knockout blow. There is no end to the knowledge that can be gained from constant martial arts practice.

Martialforce.com: If you had the chance to go back and change anything in your life, what would that be and why?

SCOTT ASHLEY: The experiences of our lives are what make us who we are. Every moment that I have experienced in this life, is what contributed to making me the man that I am today, and I wouldn’t change a thing.

Martialforce.com: Can you describe one of your training sessions?

SCOTT ASHLEY: Describing one of my training sessions is a question that has several answers. Since I’m in my thirty-eighth year of martial arts training, the type and manner of my training sessions has changed from year-to-year. 

My kick boxing book contains a lot of information on how to properly prepare for competition, which includes a lot of running, bag work and sparring. Since I had a joint replacement of my hip in 2004, I have not been able to run for any sustained period of time. During the latter part of my fighting career, I actually ran two marathon races, and did countless triathlon and duathlon races. The training that I did for racing supplemented my karate and kick boxing training. Since I was operating a dojo full time during that period, I had all day to train.

Now days, I don’t seem to have enough time to practice all of the things that I enjoy. I’m teaching karate two nights a week at the city’s recreation center, and I usually like to get my own practice time in an hour prior to my classes starting. I do practice with the class; however, I have large classes that require a lot of my attention so I can’t count on class time to get my training in.

My home dojo is on my covered patio, and in my back yard. I do three or four training sessions a week at home, and pretty much pick the type of training that I do by the way I feel on that particular day. I have become quite fond of swinging the bo staff. I am practicing several Yamanni Ryu bo kata, and some days I will run through swinging drills before running twenty or thirty kata. I am using a fairly heavy bo staff, and working it for more than an hour is physically demanding, especially when it’s ninety plus degrees outside, and I’m wearing a gi. I normally work the makiwara, and trees for about fifteen minutes prior to picking up the bo. I use palm trees for blocking and striking drills.

When I work on the Shorin Ryu empty hand kata at my home dojo, I will start with the makiwara, and trees, and then run the eighteen kata of my system. After running all of the kata, I usually pick one of the kata, and work on analyzing the movements. Since I have been practicing Goju Ryu for the past year, I may run some of those kata as well. If I’m feeling strong, I will practice in excess of two hours.

Some of my training days consist of doing a boxing or kick boxing circuit. I do have heavy bags, a speed bag, double-end bag, skip rope, and a timer at home. On the days that I do the circuit; I will do my warm-up routine, then I work three minute rounds with a thirty second rest period. On a good day, I will do fifteen rounds, when the heat is brutal, I’m good for twelve. I’ll always work abs and do some stretching to cool off. In the summer time, I often jump right into the pool and swim some laps as my cool down.

I’m certainly looking forward to retiring so that I will have the time to practice more. Throughout my life, I have always enjoyed training, and I enjoy training alone.

Martialforce.com: What do you feel is important for a beginner to focus on and why?

SCOTT ASHLEY: Knowing what a beginner should focus on really depends on who the beginner is, and what they wish to gain from martial arts. There is a saying that I’m sure most readers have read, “I’m not afraid of the guy who has done a thousand techniques one time – I’m afraid of the guy who has done one technique a thousand times,” (unknown author).

If I recommend that a beginner focus on the basics, the next question should be what are the basics? Karate has three gates, high-middle-low. It also has a system of attacking and defending the three gates. The same punch, or kick delivered to a different target can attack all three gates. One block is not sufficient for this, so one has to learn how to move. One movement can avoid an attack to any of the gates. All one has to do is move out of the way. So, if someone learns how to move, and learns one punch or one kick, they could become a competent fighter.

I may have drifted off of the question, so let me get back on track. A beginner needs to focus on their balance. Without proper balance, it is impossible to generate enough force when executing a technique. When the body is properly aligned, the structure is there to generate a tremendous amount of force without using muscular strength. This is martial arts. Without technique, the bigger,, stronger person will always dominate a violent encounter.

Martialforce.com: What can a student expect to learn from you on his or her first day of training?

SCOTT ASHLEY: The dojo that I operate out of my city’s parks and recreation department is for children and young adults. I have a Kickstarter program for ages four, five, and six. My other program is for ages seven to eighteen. My classes at this dojo are on Monday and Thursday evenings. On Monday, we practice the techniques of Shorin Ryu karate, and Thursday’s class is a sparring class.

If a student’s first class is on a Monday, the karate techniques that they will most likely learn are: a straight punch, a high block, a middle block, and a low block. There are basically two types of stances in karate; high stances and low stances. This will also be introduced to a student on their first day of training on Monday’s class.

Besides teaching my students the technical aspects of karate techniques, I often discuss the history of karate, the precepts of proper practice, and the importance of character development. I stress the importance of the ability to concentrate, and what it means to be a role model.

On Thursday I do not teach a typical karate sparring class. My dojo does not participate in karate tournaments, and we do not practice point sparring. The sparring techniques that I teach my students are the techniques and footwork that are used for kick boxing. The students are taught to move laterally in order to evade attacks and create angles to attack from. I teach my students to attack using kick-punch combinations. A student participating in their first class will jump right in with the class and do whatever it is that we are doing that evening. I do not allow my students to practice contact sparring until they have at least three months of training. When the students begin the sparring portion of the class, the beginner students will do some pad work, and/or no contact sparring.

Martialforce.com: There are so many arts like Karate, Judo, Jiu Jitsu, Aikido etc. That being said, how does a beginner know what Martial Art they should choose?

SCOTT ASHLEY: There are so many different styles of martial arts, but most of them have similar common points. It’s more important for a student to have a competent instructor than a particular style of martial arts. A student should not be afraid to try new things, and a teacher that restricts a student from trying other martial arts systems is not one that I would choose.

That being said, not everyone chooses the egg salad on the buffet table, so people have different tastes. Some people would not be very fond of Judo which involves a lot of physical contact with others. If someone is boxing or kick boxing, they will most certainly get punched and kicked often. This type of training is not for everyone. Someone that is not very flexible in the leg muscles probably would not enjoy the deep stances that some Chinese systems have, or the high kicking techniques typical of Tae Kwon Do. That is why it’s important for a student to try different things until they find what art is suited to them.

Martialforce.com: Do you practice or teach weapons and if so what are your thoughts on the purpose of its practice?

SCOTT ASHLEY: Although I learned to manipulate several of the weapons used in Okinawa Kobujitsu many years ago, I didn’t incorporate kobudo practice into my personal training routine until a few years ago. Since becoming a student of Katsuhiko Shinzato Sensei, I have been learning Yamanni Ryu Bojitsu. Last year he taught me a Sai kata, and maybe he will teach me another weapon this year. I do feel comfortable with the tools that I am using, and can pass that knowledge on to my students; however, becoming proficient in karate takes a tremendous amount of effort and determination. Learning kobudo is an added responsibility that not many students are willing to invest the time in to become proficient. I am only sharing Kobudo with my most dedicated students.

My sensei will tell you that the purpose of practicing kobudo is to make your karate better. While this is certainly true, kobudo practice is an art of its own. Although there are many similarities with karate and kobudo, and kobudo practice can improve one’s karate, I feel that kobudo is an art in itself.

Martialforce.com: What are your thoughts on children becoming high ranking black belts?

SCOTT ASHLEY: The color of someone’s belt, or the rank certificate that someone holds, should only be important to the teacher who awards the belt and rank, and the student receiving them. Everything is relative to what a person’s beliefs are, and belt ranks mean different things to different people. Back in the early ninety’s; we did not use belts in my adult karate class. Everyone trained in a tee shirt and black Kung Fu pants. If you wanted to get a belt, you didn’t join my dojo. Only the kid’s class got belts, hint, hint – belts were for kids, not adults. Since I don’t belong to any formal karate association, I don’t have to worry about these things. I promote my kids by attendance, and I just love experiencing the excitement they show when they receive a different color belt. For me, it’s all about creating a moment for them.

Martialforce.com: What are your thought if any on the ranking systems going over 10th degree?

SCOTT ASHLEY:  I think it is so sad that people try to equate their martial arts value by a ranking system – meaningless.

Martialforce.com: On a different subject, tell us how you got involved in Law Enforcement?                                                   

SCOTT ASHLEY: After operating a store-front dojo for seven years, and seeing my family grow, I decided to look for a secure job with health insurance benefits and a pension. With my background in martial arts, and the six years that I served in the United States Marine Corps Reserve, I thought that a law enforcement career would be a natural transition.

I started in 1997, and worked as a corrections deputy in the Broward County jail system, and in 1999, I transitioned to road patrol. The interesting part about my beginnings in the law enforcement field was that the chief defensive tactics instructor at the police academy was the world famous, heavyweight karate champion, Joe Hess. Mr. Hess was familiar with my kick boxing career, and he had even judged one of my kick boxing fights. In the year 2000, he hired me as an adjunct instructor.  I have been teaching defensive tactics to cadets participating in the police academy part time for the past sixteen years.

MASTER JOE HESS 1970’S

Scott Ashley and Joe Hess

Scott Ashley Police Academy graduation

In 2002, a position for an instructor in the training division of my agency became available. I applied, and received the position. I spent more than five years working in the training division, and became the agency’s Defense Tactics Coordinator. My position afforded me the opportunity to travel around the country and participate in training courses designed for law enforcement use of force. I was also fortunate to take part in a panel of subject matter experts, on police use of force, in Tallahassee. Together, our panel helped write the new defensive tactics curriculum taught at certified training centers throughout the State of Florida. I have been a sergeant for almost four years now, and retirement is closing in.

 Martialforce.com: Thank you for accepting this interview and sharing your story with our readers. The staff at Martialforce.com wish you continued success.